I was just thinking about it the other day and it occured in our last 25man ICC... Stalemates, should they be allowed?
If my memory serves 3-4 people wanted a ring, and they all bid from 10 incrementing up to 25, then they stopped bidding, even though they all did have some more dkp left in their own pot. Now my thought was, why should they all stop bidding and just roll for an item since they all still have dkp left? Granted I get that people may not want to have to pay more for a certain item (people may say, "If my trinket drops, i'll only go up to 25dkp" etc), so is it fair to just let everyone roll once they stop bidding? Or should they have to pay slightly extra if they win a roll (where the dkp bid has been tied) for an item? Or do you have anyother thoughts/suggestions?
My thoughts just drift to say... two pally healers in a raid, they both get together and decide that if XX drops, they'll both just bid 10 on it, wait, and roll, thus saving eachother's dkp or what. Whilst this can be seen as just considerate for not burning eachothers' dkp, if decided beforehand it seems to be a little unfair as others who don't have this pre-arranged, er, arrangement wont get the same benefit...
I'm just speaking my mind tbh with no real train of thought, so more input is needed from others!
Nav
I have to agree Nav, They should have carried on bidding until 1 person was the clear winner on Dkp or if 2 or more bid the full dkp then those 2 roll.
Its like the Zod's bow dropped, all 3 hunters went straight in with full Dkp bid so the roll there was fair.
One other idea is - do we carry the bidding on into -Dkp or not?
Others please comment, Phantom
Personally I'd like to see blind bidding. I know this would be a bit more difficult to organise on a raid, and it'd mean someone taking the bids in whispers, but it'd make things more interesting and fair I think.
I like the idea of the winner spending the amount of DKP equal to the next bid down. That saves people blowing excessive points.
The problem with the system as it is now is that people will tend to start the bidding at 10 DKP (the lowest they're allowed to bid) and then creep up in increments once they see what others have bid. I don't think this is the way the system should work really
If you bid in whispers, you have to think carefully about how valuable the piece of loot is for you.
On the point about bidding into negative DKP, I'd be strongly against that. People need to plan carefully what they want and spend sensibly. Worse case scenario with negative DKP would be someone bidding into the red then leaving the guild..
I'd agree with the fact that people shouldn't be able to go -ve in dkp, it leads to bad things and isn't entirely necessary. If you find yourself with 0 dkp, it simply means next time you can only bid 0 dkp. I'll stay out of the discussion for a bit longer on the other topics though.
Personally I like open biddings more than the closed ones. I suppose closed biddings could work in this Guild cause the leaders seems to be very fair and honest about things. But I just know from experience that some people can tend to maybe "miss" someones bid and rather "choose" the person they like the most if you catch my drift.
I think that there should maybe be a limit to how many times you are allowed to bid on a item. Or else the biddings can go on forever whenever when we get more DKP and that will make the time left for actually progressing on things less. Lets say you're allowed to bid 3 times, it certainly makes people think a bit more before they bid.I suppose I can also see the bad things about that, people might wait until there's most people have used all of their bids and then they can easily win it. It could work better if you have to bid within a certain time like...20-30 seconds or something like that. And if you haven't bid within the set time then you can't bid on the item.Gah, I'm just throwing ideas around really ^^
~ Tem
hmm guys as far as i know we only roll for the loot if all who have bid have bid the max aqmount of dkp they got so on thursday first boss was 25 2nd boss was 30 and 3rd boss was 35 dkp as we get 20 dkp for signing up and been there for start time and we get 5 dkp per boss kill so if 3 people bid say 35 dkp on 3rd boss they then roll for the loot and the item costa them 35 dkp and its true you could get together with say the other priest or shammy but when will it drop next so i say bid all you got and leave it for me at cheaper rates :p
In hindsight, there shouldn't have been a stalemate.
The first bid from somone at that amount would be the winner, unless somone was prepared to pay more, or pass.
Hence, the first bid at 25 DKP for the item in question should have been the winner, if no other bid was higher (and there should have been no rolling).
I'm sure we will iron out all these problems in due course, but good to get this input though
Shadow Knights Founder & LeaderWorld of Warcraft High ElderWeb Administrator
Not gunna make a new topic was just thinking, should we maybe have it so you can only bid dkp you had 'before' the raid started? Guess it's harder for members of the raid to 'track' how much they have, since when we /w Rez !dkp we get the current dkp.
Was just toyin with the idea, any input?
I agreed with the above point;- Highest bid wins. None of this all bidding the same amount of DKP (ie 25) then roll when you have more dkp to spend. Thats close to an abuse of the system. Good point Nav and had I release I would have said something because that is very wrong. I say this as someone (at the time of writing) with the max dkp possible so I am trying to be fair about things.
If 2 players have the max DKP or the same and they can go no higher then a roll is fair. Don't really like who bid the highest first gets the item either. It gives the 2nd bidder a big advantage.
Its simple...Highest bidder wins and they pay the amount bid. Not 5 DKP less to the next lowest bid, but the amount they have bid. EBAY can't be wrong! :)
Also, Negative DKP is a very bad idea. We had that in my last guild and surprise surprise ppl left owing -100 DKP. How do you ever get that back!. Plus it let newbies take item off of players that have been in the guild for some time earning the items.
Just my views
Armo
So, to keep things simple, from now on...
Lowest bid is 10 DKP
Bid increments of 5 DKP
Higher bidder wins (no stalemates)
You pay the amount you bid
If two or more bid their maximum, and no one else can go higher, then a roll 100 decides on the winner, and they get for the amount they bid
So we're saying that if two people both want to bid, say, 25 DKP for an item, the one who types it first wins automatically if the other has more than 25 DKP but might be unwilling to bid it? What happens if one person is considering the item for a little longer? Or is a slower typist? I prefer to allow people to carefully consider loot and how much they think it's worth it to them. If two or more people value the loot equally, they'll both stop bidding and a random roll will decide it.
I don't honestly see any problem with random rolls if more than one person bids the same amount. Ok, so it maybe takes a little longer, but I think it will happen less as everyones' DKP get split. It's only a problem at the moment cos many people have the same DKP. Bear in mind that it becomes risky to let something you want go to a random roll when you have more DKP to bid, so I'm pretty sure most people will try to secure valuable loot by upping their bids.
Just on a related note, what did we decide to do about the Vanquisher's Marks? I personally favour bidding on them as with everything else. I know it's not good for the guild to have someone stick one in their bank, but to be honest I think they have that right if they bid the DKP.
You have a valid point Hav, and it's unlikely that we will need to enforce the rule so much as time goes on and DKP is split a bit more.
I think what people don't want to happen is people stick at a low value, and then just roll, to get the item cheap, or cheaper than it might have been?
Maybe we will need to discuss this a bit more, and confirm for thursdays raid exactly what we going to do.